[00:00:01] Speaker A: Ely, Minnesota is your perfect Northwoods getaway.
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[email protected] is WWTC Minneapolis St. Paul FM 107.5 K298CO Minneapolis Intelligent Radio with SRN News.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: I'm Bob Agnew.
[00:00:40] Speaker C: In Washington, House Republicans have missed another deadline to produce a massive budget package of tax cuts and slashing spending. Instead, Senate Republicans Friday jumped ahead, unveiling A more tailored $340 billion blueprint focused on President Trump's deportation agenda and bolstering U.S. defense spending.
As part of a promotion of his newly published memoir, Bill Gates is weighing in on artificial intelligence.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: The Microsoft co founder says we can argue about the timeframe for fixing AI errors, but we have to acknowledge that.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: AI is almost uniquely dangerous because it's unbounded in terms of how good it will get.
[00:01:21] Speaker C: And it's happening, you know, within a generation.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Gates says AI advances are helping his foundation and believes we're going to discover new vaccines and drugs with the help of the tools. I'm Julie Walker.
[00:01:34] Speaker C: This is SRN News.
Dr. Sebastian Gorka explains why Trump ran in the first place. I'm no politician, but America is broken. America has been betrayed by both sides of the political aisle. And he said, I love America and I want to fix it. America first with Dr. Sebastian Gorka, afternoons.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: At 2, right before Larry Elder at 5 on AM 1280 the Patriot Intelligent Radio Ready to step up your footwear game at Work Boot Outlet? We don't just do work boots. We've got premium shoes for everyday adventure. From rugged hiking boots to comfortable everyday wear, our collection is built for durability, comfort and style, all without breaking the the bank. Whether you're hitting the trails, tackling the workday, or just out, Work Boot Outlet has you covered with shoes that work as hard as you do. Premium shoes, premium service without the premium prices. Find us conveniently located by Culver's on Northdale Boulevard in Rogers, Minnesota. Work Boot Outlet we just have good boots. When addiction takes hold, it's easy to.
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[00:02:43] Speaker A: But you're not in this alone. For 75 years, Hazelden Betty Ford has been at the forefront of addiction and mental health care, evolving treatment, reimagining, recovery, and breaking through barriers to help families everywhere find healing. So please reach out at 8-554-892383 help is here. Sponsored by Hazelden Betty Ford foundation and aired by the Minnesota Broadcasters association and the station JTR JTR Looping and sighting. That's who we are. Hey homeowners, Winter is here. Now is the perfect time to beat the rush and call JT Roofing to get your home project set up for.
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[00:04:09] Speaker C: Well, when I first came in it was totally different. I was definitely doing everything with a.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: Walker, even a wheelchair for some longer distance things for shorter distances.
[00:04:20] Speaker C: I eventually got better at walking so.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Then I could use a cane. It's Dr. Kim Tran, D.C. host of Health is Wealth Radio. Mandy came in experiencing dizziness, balance issues and unable to walk on her own.
[00:04:34] Speaker C: Then more practice with that. I was able to not use the cane anymore.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: Kind of learned like better ways to.
[00:04:40] Speaker C: Stand up and sit down using the things in the back of my neck. By the way I'd sit, I would.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: Definitely say at least try a chiropractor first. If you're experiencing pain, dizziness and balance issues, call me Dr. Kim Tran at Minnesota Integrative Health and Chiropractic located in Richfield off 494 and 35W. You can give me a call at 612-545-5672. No medications, no shots, no surgeries. Or find me at drkimtran.com that's Dr. Kimtran.com join me to rally to read.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: 100 books reading is fundamental invites you to visit rallytoread.org today to learn about our reading campaign. Join the pledge to read 100 books, hear your child's favorite authors, read their books, and find activities to keep young readers motivated.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: Teachers can also enter the Rally to.
[00:05:32] Speaker B: Read Sweepstakes for a chance to win 100 books for their own school subject to rules, visit rallytoread.org today.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: The following program was pre recorded and the views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station or its management. This is Open Your Eyes Radio with Dr. Kerry Gel.
[00:05:52] Speaker B: Good morning, I'm Dr. Kerry Gel and welcome to Wellness 1280 on Open Your Eyes Radio. Please listen as I discuss the newest information in the world of health, nutrition and sports. Every Saturday morning 6am Central Time on AM 1280 the Patriot. Also, please share your thoughts by emailing me at drkerrygelbmail.com that's D R K E R O Y G-E L
[email protected] and visit my new website wellness1280.com where we have all guest links, Wellness 1280 info and previous shows. Wellness is taking over the Patriot Airways for the next hour. Sit back and enjoy my interview with Dr. Evan Mladen. Off. Did you know that sports alone account for an estimated 3.8 million concussions annually in the U.S. yet despite these staggering numbers, brain injuries remain notoriously difficult to diagnose and the pressure to rush players back onto the field can lead to devastating consequences. Our guest today is someone who has dedicated his life to understanding and addressing this challenge. We're joined by Dr. Evan Mladenoff, a renowned concussion expert and Kansas City chiropractor. Dr. Mladenoff has broken barriers as one of the few chiropractors to serve as a team physician in professional and Olympic sports in two countries.
His patients have included NFL players, NHL players and referees. He also is a sought out lecturer and his latest book document when can my kids play?
[00:07:29] Speaker C: Here you go.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: You can see it right here. I read the whole thing. You see it's highlighted dives deep into the complexities of concussion recovery and safety. In today's episode we'll explore the hidden dangers of concussions, the strategies for effective recovery, and how we can better protect athletes at all levels. Whether you're a parent, coach or athlete yourself, this conversation is one you don't want to miss. So let's get started. Dr. Milanov, welcome to the Open Your Eyes podcast with Dr. Kerry Gehl.
[00:08:02] Speaker C: Thank you Dr. Kerry, it's awesome to be here.
[00:08:05] Speaker B: I'm so happy to have you. I'm very interested in sports. I have a 14 year old kid who plays baseball and this is a very interesting area because I love the title of your book, doc, when can my kid play? Because parents and coaches and trainers will rush kids back to play when maybe they're not ready. Why did you write this book.
[00:08:31] Speaker C: That's an awesome question. That is the first question everybody has when they get a concussion. When can I apply? I remember I was on the sideline for a Chiefs game. It was a preseason game against the St. Louis Rams at that time. And a guy named Greg Popovic, a tight end, jumps up, catches the ball, comes down and it was a crushing blow. Now it would be one of those guys, he'd be thrown out of the game. That kind of head to head contact. And he's laying there grasping the ball. And he comes to. Now this is literally 10ft away from where I am on the sideline. And he says, did I make the catch? And it's like he was unconscious for minutes, but he was worried about making the catch. And they said, okay, we're going to go into the locker room. So this is back in the dark ages, so to speak. There's no concussion protocols. So you know what the guy says? He says, I walked onto the field, I'm walking off the field, leave me alone. And he literally got up and staggered off the field. So that was like that type of go. So now why, why am I personally involved in concussions? Well, the short of the long story is at age 10, my son's playing travel hockey. They went to Chicago. This is while I was with the Chiefs. They were in a bus accident about a mile from home. My wife is one of the chaperones. She turns to yell at the kids because they were coming down a ramp to exit to go to the drop off point and the bus went out of control and hit one of those lamp posts. She shattered a three quarter inch piece of plexiglass with her face. She had turned to the side. I believe to this day, in all my heart, if she was looking straight ahead, she would have not survived that impact. She had seven facial fractures. Her face was all swollen, her eye was swollen shut. She never had any visual problems. So now this is on my front door. Now what do I do? I got to take care of this. I got to find somebody to help her if we rewind even longer. When my oldest daughter, I have three kids. When she was age 2, I was out lecturing. I came home, Mom's carrying her to meet us. Coming out of the airport, the baby lunged. Mom wasn't ready. Dad wasn't ready to catch her. The baby fell, hit her head on the pavement. A two year old. Okay, it's at my front door. I better figure out what to help my child. So fast forward a little bit longer. My son Dr. Chip, who's with us now, he's playing Division 1 men's college hockey. He had three concussion events while he was playing. And he didn't tell anybody, including the old man, why he wanted to play. Right. And so we thought. I said, are you nuts? You didn't tell me you see me help your mom and your sister, and they helped me. And he says, I just wanted to play that. And then Fast forward to 2017 in February. I'm riding my pedaling bicycle at high speed. A guy runs a stop sign, plows me over my head, hit the pavement three times. There was 11 fractures in my helmet. I had skin ripped off the whole right side of my body. And I'm laying there saying, don't look, because I couldn't feel the right side of my body. I thought, okay, maybe my arms are not attached or something.
Now, the cool part of that was, though, within two minutes, an ambulance was there because I was. I happened to be on a route that was close to a police station, and within 10 minutes, my son, Dr. Chip, was there to start doing the protocols that we talk about in the book to start checking me. So. But put all that together and my family history of head trauma is, is why I'm intensely possessed. I wouldn't say passionate. I'm possessed about this because there's no reason why someone should continue to suffer with a concussion.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: Wow, that's quite, that's quite a story. And, you know, people get confused. Also, the difference between TBI concussions and cte. Can you clear up what the difference is between the three of those?
[00:12:14] Speaker C: Sure. Okay, so those are all. We're all, Everything's got to be an acronym in a three letter. You know, we don't use English language anymore. So. Ct, Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy. This was the centerpiece of that movie, the concussion that was done several years ago, that brought a lot of stuff to light. So, number one, you can only diagnose CTE post mortem. The patient is already dead. So if you hear this weekend with all the NFL games, oh, somebody got diagnosed with CTE and that's why he's not playing. Or somebody from another. They're lying. They don't know what they're talking about. Patient is already dead. So now there is some controversy about, you know, is it a concussion? Is it an mtbi? So I'm going to give you the other acronyms that you didn't ask me about, and I, I don' I put them in the book, but there's a PTBI Pediatric traumatic brain injury. Then there's an rtbi, repeated traumatic brain injury. Then there's a stbi, which is a severe traumatic brain injury. Then of course, the mtbi, a mild traumatic brain injury. And so all those are just words of trying to catalog something, put something into a pigeonhole so a pigeonhole treatment can be developed. And there's one thing I've learned over the decades is like, okay, there's no two concussions that are the same. They might look the same on videotape, but because of the mechanics of the brain and all the neurology and how the person presents at the time of the concussion, their own physiology, there's no two concussions the same. And so it doesn't matter what they call it. If you try to pigeonhole it and treat the two concussions the same way, you're not going to get good results on both of them, maybe not even either of them.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: You talk about the brain, how it's, how it's like a volleyball sitting on a post. Can you tell us about that and, and, and show them how it' so fragile?
[00:14:05] Speaker C: Sure, sure.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:07] Speaker C: I had to come up with a way to how to explain what was going on in the brain in English for patients to understand what was going on. So there's two analogies I use in the book. One is the brain's kind of like jello, where it's pretty mobile and it's kind of wiggly and jiggly. Okay. Then there's a layer of liquid around that. Okay. Then there's a very thick, dense layer called, called the blood brain barrier. It's like a trampoline. It's called the dura. And then that's attached to the bones of the head. So the brain is pretty mobile inside the skull. And once you get hit, the brain literally gets sloshed and twisted around inside your head, which is the mechanics of how concussion occurs. So now there are five things that happen in a concussion. Five injuries. And you have to examine all five things.
There can be a neck injury, there can be a pituitary stock injury. There can be a neuro inflammatory cascade, there can be a metabolic cascade, and then I always forget to feel the vestibular cascade. So you have to examine something in all five of those things. So the easiest way to describe that is your brain's like this volleyball sitting on a post, and the post anchors the volleyball, but the volleyball can move and rotate. And where the post meets the volleyball, that's where your neck stops and your vestibular system, your Gyroscope if you will.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: The gyroscope. Hold that thought. We're up against the break. I'm speaking with Dr. Eben Mladenoff. The Mladenoff Kansas City Chiropractic Clinic will be back in just a moment.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: I went to the eye doctor the other day with my daughter Maggie. I was shocked when the doctor told me that my daughter was already becoming nearsighted. It turns out that this problem affects more than 40% of Americans. My eye doctor thinks this disease is getting worse. Perhaps it's getting worse because of kids prolonged time spent playing with smartphones or maybe because kids now spend less time outside. My genetics probably aren't helping her a whole lot being nearsighted myself. But the good news is that the doctor told me about a new FDA approved product called MySite. This specific one day contact lens is already worn by thousands of children in the US it is probably proven to slow down the progression of nearsightedness. And best of all, Maggie loves these contact lenses. The doctor taught her how to use them. Now it is so exciting to see her have even more success in the classroom and when she plays sports. I Recommend you visit openyourizeradio.com to find an eye doctor that specializes in this treatment program. Learn
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[00:17:41] Speaker A: I went to the eye doctor the other day with my daughter Maggie I was shocked when the doctor told me that my daughter was already becoming nearsighted. It turns out that this problem affects more than 40% of Americans. My eye doctor thinks this disease is getting worse. Perhaps it's getting worse because of kids prolonged time spent playing with smartphones or maybe because kids now spend less time outside. My genetics probably aren't helping her a whole lot being nearsighted myself. But the good news is that the doctor told me about a new FDA approved product called My Sight. This specific one day contact lens is already worn by thousands of children in the US it is proven to slow down the progression of nearsightedness. And best of all, Maggie loves these contact lenses. The doctor taught her how to use them. Now it is so exciting to see her have even more success in the classroom and when she plays sports. I Recommend you visit openyourizradio.com to find an eye doctor that specializes in this treatment program. Learn more at open your eyes radio.com.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: We'Re back with Dr. Evan Mladinov, the author of the book Doc When Can My Kid Play? Really good book. I recommend it very highly. Especially if you have a kid that plays sports or God forbid you were in a car accident. You want to learn about concussions and when you, when you, when you go back and drive, when you could go back to work and when you could go back and play sports. But at the break we were talking about the brain and the brain being jello and like a volleyball sitting on a post and how really fragile the brain is. So if you could talk to us just about how easy is it to get a concussion? How hard do you have to be hit to get a concussion?
[00:19:29] Speaker C: You know, the miracle is how resilient our brain is. Yes, it's fragile in all the ways it works and how it's attached to the little pieces inside. But the truly remarkable thing is how little things can happen potentially with amount of forces. There's a great YouTube clip. ESPN did that sports Sciences Academy a few years ago and they showed the amount of forces that happens when a head hits a head. It's about a three minute video clip here of your listeners and viewers. If they just go check that out, it'll give you all the forces that do that. But you know, the brain still sloshes around and some people get horrendous symptoms and some people get minimal symptoms and, and there's a lot of reasons of why that can happen.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: I want to talk about that. You said that about G force. You know, football players, you know, they can get hit 80 times, 80 times with a 60 at a 60 G force, boxers at a 60 G force. But the space shuttle was about a 3G force. How were they getting all this, all this taking all this trauma and how much of that G force will it take to eventually get a concussion? And like you said before, you know, the, it's, the brain is a miracle that it could sustain all that type of trauma. But being punched like that from a boxer or being hit in a football game. You know, I visited Daniel Amen's clinic a number of years ago and he does these spec scans that we'll talk about later. And he said that probably every single football player everyone he examined had some kind of brain, had some kind of brain problem, had brain trauma, had brain damage when looking at these spec scans. So talk about these G forces between a football player and a boxer and even, and even mixed martial arts, which is the most dangerous?
[00:21:30] Speaker C: You know, one of the greatest things is we look at boxing like I talked about in the very first chapter in the book. And the reason why that's important is the name of the game in boxing is to hit the other guy's head as hard as you can, as many times as you can, and knock him out. Right. And so I, I referenced one article that was published in, in the journal the American medical association in 20, no, 1928, and it followed 23 boxers. And the conclusion was he was punch drunk, he was in a stupor, he couldn't talk, you know, all these kind of things. And then there's another statistic I put in there which is one of the best kept secrets in sports, and that is boxers die in the ring every year from getting hit in the head. And so this goes back to those five things that I talked about that must be examined. Okay, so Dr. Amen does those SPECT scans. Well, if you don't check anything for neuro inflammation within the first couple of days of getting a concussion, that neuro inflammation can stay there and can fester in your brain and it will then continue to cause problems that eventually cause something called apoptosis. Now that's a fancy Greek word that means death by DNA. So in our genetic code, if something happens and a cell starts to deteriorate, the DNA code kicks in and says, okay, this is good, not good, I better get rid of this thing. Kind of like, you know, unless it's an evergreen tree, like we got a big oak tree in front of the house, right? Well, in the springtime, the leaves come up and everything, and it looks beautiful shade on the house. But in the fall, the leaves start to change color and then they literally die and drop off. Okay, so it's that kind of reaction we're talking to. So if that neuroinflammation stays around in the brain for years and decades, brain cells are eventually gonna die. And you may not feel a thing.
The only thing you may feel is you may feel a little balance off. You might get a little headache once in a while or what typically happens is you'll forget things like where you put your keys or you forget your, you know, one of your kids names or. And we tend to blow off those things, right? We say, ah. It's like I always remember my grandmother with our seven grandkids. She'd go through the list of which one are you? And yeah, I'm sure you've all experienced that with our aging population. But, you know, those little things start to happen. But then it shows up on that PET scan that Dr. Amen does. So that goes back to, okay, did you just want your athlete or your family member or yourself to get out of pain and to get back to playing or get back to your life? Or did you, did you want to really fix the concussion and get your brain working optimally?
[00:24:11] Speaker B: Who's the worst?
[00:24:13] Speaker C: The, the.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: The coach, the parent, or the trainer to bring the. To have the kid go out and play again? In your, in your, in your experience over many, many years.
[00:24:28] Speaker C: You know what, that is a really awesome question because as. As much information is out there, some of the approaches are still archaic. I literally had a new patient come in this week and she had a concussion from a car accident about six months ago. And she went to er, got checked out, there was no fracture, no bleeding or anything. She started having some headaches. Now here's a dirty secret that ER didn't tell you. You might not get any symptoms for 72 hours. So if you go to ER, right, and you have no symptoms, they say, oh, you're okay, Go home. And then a few days later, stuff starts to happen. And then all of a sudden, you know, what's happening to me? Why am I like this? And you, you blow off. Well, I went to er, they said I was okay. Well, the per. Just remember, Dr. Kelly, the purpose of ER is to make sure there's no fracture, there's no bleeding, there's no life threatening, ominous thing that can happen to you. When they've ruled that out, they basically wash their hands and say, okay, go home.
So this, this gal did that? Well, Six months later, she's still got horrendous neck pain, headaches. She's got two, two daughters, twins, age 8, 9 that she's got to take care of.
And so they just blew her off. And this was a car accident. Now that's probably more common than sports related things.
You know, here's an interesting thing. Is this going to change? And the answer is it's changing far too slowly in my opinion. There's only 12 states that I talk about in the book that have laws about when an athlete can go back to learn and how much academic stuff can he do, when can he go back to activity or his sport, when can he drive? Of course, if you're not an athlete, when can you go back to work? So I'll caution your listeners of wherever, whatever facility you go to, including er, they should be giving you three pieces of paper. Those three pieces of paper are should you be driving and when can you start driving? Number two, how much intellectual activity or what they call return to learn can a kid do or you're going to college athlete do? And then number three, you know, how much physical activity return to participation or return to place. If you're not getting those three pieces, those three documents in writing from the facility you go to to have your concussion taken care of, you need to find someplace else.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: I remember in your book you said 38% of the people that have a concussion don't want to drive for a while. They feel very uncomfortable driving. I want to get back to another point that I read, a statistic that 85% of concussions or TBIs go undiagnosed.
That seems to be a real problem. Why do you think that is?
[00:27:17] Speaker C: Yes, you're correct. And the reason is they go to er, they don't really have any symptoms and the symptoms don't really start for a few days or even a week later.
Here is some of the other statistics. If you do have neck pain when you go to er, and this is just a day or two after the accident, not a year after the accident, then it's going to take you at least three to six months to get better. If you have a headache at er, it's going to take you six months to a year to get better. So part of the problem is that symptoms do not happen right away because your brain and your body could be in shock and they're basically in protect mode. And so then we people will blow it off and say, oh, it had nothing to do with my head, I didn't have any symptoms. For a week, I was good. I went to er. They said I was good. Right. So here's the big question I have for you, Dr. Kelly. What do they do in that blue tent on the sideline at college and NFL games? And the answer, I can tell you what they're not doing.
So are we on video? Will patients be able to. Yeah, we're on video. Okay. All right. So one of the first tests that the literature says. And here's the problem, the literature has all these wonderful things that we know about, but they don't reach the field doctor's office for 15 to 20 years down the road.
And, you know, because it's done in the laboratory. But the first test that should be done, and this is what they should be doing in that tent, is. It's called convergence insufficiency. Simply, can you. Can your eyes come together and stay there for 30 seconds? So if you've had a concussion and you got a family member there, I want you to take your finger. And so you're going to do this to the person who had the concussion, right? Bring your fingers slowly until you're about six inches away from the tip of their nose and watch their eyes. Can their eyes come together and stay focused? And can they stay there for 15 seconds? So that's perfect. Okay. So the next thing is, okay, if they come in and then one drifts away, right? Then that's a problem. Okay. And you'll have. We'll have some people like this young lady that came in, we were talking about with the car accident, and they blew her off. When I asked her to do that, she would do this. And her. Literally her. I think it was her right eye, but one eye literally didn't move. She could not make the one eye do this. Right. So that. That's a simple test, and it tells us lots of things. And. And that's where the skill of the practitioner comes in. So I'm going to give you the short of this, Dr. Kelly, and that as you have two eyeballs, each eyeball has six muscles. Each of those six muscles has three nerve supplies, and each of those three nerve supplies has five different parts of the brain. It comes from. That's 96 neurological connections. You've got to make sure all those are working properly so they can do this. Yeah.
[00:30:03] Speaker B: And, you know, being an eye doctor myself, you know, convergence and sufficiency is something that we check on every single patient. And we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about accommodation. About 50% of the people who have concussions have accommodative problems or convergence problems and because about over a little bit over 50% of the brain is dedicated to vision. So we're up against the break. This is Dr. Karen Gel for Open YOUR Eyes Radio. We'll be back with Dr. Mladenoff after the break. More on concussions.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: I went to the eye doctor the other day with my daughter Maggie. I was shocked when the doctor told me that my daughter was already becoming nearsighted. It turns out that this problem affects more than 40% of Americans. My eye doctor thinks this disease is getting worse. Perhaps it's getting worse because of kids prolonged time spent playing with smartphones or maybe because kids now spend less time outside. My genetics probably aren't helping her a whole lot being nearsighted myself. But the good news is that the doctor told me about a new FDA approved product called MySight. This specific one day contact lens is already worn by thousands of children in the US it is proven to slow down the progression of nearsightedness. And best of all, Maggie loves these contact lenses. The doctor taught her how to use them. Now it is so exciting to see her have even more success in the classroom and when she plays sports. I Recommend you visit openyoureyesradio.com to find an eye doctor that specializes in this treatment program. Learn
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[00:31:59] Speaker A: Make it easy to upgrade your comfort without breaking the bank. Metro Heating and Cooling is committed to helping you make informed choices that benefit your wallet and the environment. Visit metroheating.com the greatest red carpet you'll ever walk is through your front door. We're Dr. Josh and Kristi Straub, marriage and leadership coaches and hosts of the famous At Home Podcast. With a realistic, grace filled look at the struggles families face today, we cover topics designed to help you become a rock star under your roof, set healthy rhythms between work and home and build a rock solid marriage. To listen now, go to lifeaudio.com or search famous at Home on your favorite podcast platform. I went to the eye doctor the other day with my daughter Maggie. I was shocked when the doctor told me that my daughter was already becoming nearsighted. It turns out that this Problem affects more than 40% of Americans. My eye doctor thinks this disease is getting worse. Perhaps it's getting worse because of kids prolonged time spent playing with smartphones or maybe because kids now spend less time outside. My genetics probably aren't helping her a whole lot being nearsighted myself. But the good news is that the doctor told me about a new FDA approved product called MySite. This specific one day contact lens is already worn by thousands of children in the US it is proven to slow down the progression of nearsightedness. And best of all, Maggie loves these contact lenses. The doctor taught her how to use them. Now it is so exciting to see her have even more success in the classroom and when she plays sports. I Recommend you visit openyoureyesradio.com to find an eye doctor that specializes in this treatment program. Learn more at Open your open your eyes radio.com we're speaking with Dr. Evan.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: Mladenoff of the Milanov Kansas City Clinic.
He's a chiropractor and he's an expert on concussions. And we're having a great talk here about concussions. I want to go back to 1982. I was watching a fight between Ray Mancini and Duku Kim from Korea and he was killed in the ring. And what does it really, what does it take for someone to actually be killed in the ring? My thought is he probably was a second concussion syndrome. He probably had a concussion, you know, maybe in sparring, didn't tell anybody and then he got killed in the ring. But I know that you're not a big fight fan, but tell me a little bit about what you think probably happened.
[00:34:31] Speaker C: Yeah, that that's a high probability. I'd agree with your observation that that second impact syndrome, he probably had something there which means his brain. Picture this, doc. If you bang your thumb with a hammer, what happens? It'll get swollen and it'll throw. Okay, well, if you bring your brain with a concussion, your brain gets swollen but it can't go anywhere because it's sitting inside a case of bone. And so wherever the hit is and then the second hit, which is basically 180 degrees in the opposite direction, that's where you're going to get symptoms. So that's why some patients get, you know, they're sensitive to the sound of light. Other patients are sensitive to dizziness. Other patients, they can't talk, they can't verbalize things.
So I, I would be willing to maybe bet you an adult beverage that he probably had a previous existing head draw. With some neuroinflammation in the brain. And then, you know, just enough of a hit. Okay, here's another good example, doc. It's like, okay, a lot of these patients come in. You ever been to the Grand Canyon?
[00:35:33] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:35:33] Speaker C: Okay, there's no fence, is there? No, no. So you can go to the edge of the Grand Canyon and look down and it's a mile drop. So picture this. That's what's, that's what's probably happened to this guy. He's got his left foot on the ground. His right foot's hanging over the edge of the canyon. The left arm, right arm are hanging over the edge of the canyon, and so is his head. And he's looking down. What would it take for him to fall down the canyon?
Augusto in somebody calling his name, passing gas from either end of his body. If he sneezes, he's going over. So if, if he was like that going into the match, it wouldn't take much head trauma to throw him off the end of the cliff. And then you, you could get tearing of arteries, you could get tearing of nerves. Then you could get, you know, if there was any fracture, you get external bleeding away from the brain into the cavity between the brain and that hard trampoline area, which is not very big. But it's like, okay, there's not supposed to be anything but a pure fluid in there. And anything else gets in there, it can be life threatening.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's why it's so important for kids that may have had a concussion, not to push them out there. Let's talk about kids a little bit. And I want to ask you about Muhammad Ali story in a minute, but let's talk about kids under 12 and over 12.
How do you know when you, you could put a kid out there to start playing sports again? Let's start with the under 12 kid, which is much more vulnerable. And, you know, that may have more of a problem.
[00:37:04] Speaker C: Okay, so let's go back to that little test that ocular convergence. Can their eyes come together? Right. There's another, another great test. It's an app that's about five bucks called the okn strips or optokinetic strips. And these are white and red stripes that you can make them go from right to left, left to right, up and down and change direction. So you have the person watch those. And normal is your eyes should twitch together when you do that. Right? Well, if they don't twitch together, if one twitches the wrong way, that's not good. Right? But they might twitch normally, but they made it. Excuse me. Like this gal we had, her eyes were twitching normally, but she started getting nauseous and dizzy. She said, oh, can we stop that? And it's like, okay. And so to me, what tells me is okay, she's close to the edge of the cliff if that little bit of activation of her eyes drove the brain too hard. So we, you know, we, we do a, a one hour free seminar, doc, where we, we try to teach patients and the public how to do, start checking themselves. These are simple little tests, right? And then they can go help, go help them. Go find somebody that'll help them. So some of the weirdest, strangest things, a nine year old girl playing in the playground, you know, the, the monkey bars. That looks like an igloo. She was playing on those, slipped, fell backwards, hit her head on the peat moss, and she was unconscious for at least a minute before a teacher got there.
A year later, she's still having problems. And so mom calls me and she says, because we had taken care of another one of her children that had a concussion, she calls me and she says, oh, she's nauseous, she's throwing up. I said, you got to take her to er. She says, doc, you know, ER stupid over there. The interns don't know anything. I said, I know, but we need to make sure there's no fracture in her skull. We need to make sure there's no bleeding. I said, you know, if you have any friends, nurses, you know, or any doctor friends, even if they're dentists, like, call them and find out where we can get an MRI or CT scan of her brain.
Okay? So they, we managed to get that done and then there was no fracture. So then we, we brought her in and you'll, you'll be, I think, ecstatic. One of the biggest tools we use is, it's a rapid eye screening test called Right eye. I don't know if you're familiar with that technology.
Okay, so it's always, we use that thing unbelievably. And the great part is for this young gal, okay? Now a year later, she's now finally back to her normal level of reading, and we're just talking about the movement of her eyes when she tries to read. Okay? So now most people say, wait a minute, you're a chiropractor. Why are you checking her eyes? I said, because the brain controls the eyes. The eyes are a window to the brain. They tell us so much about the brain. So, you know, what does this have to do with concussions? And the answer is, wherever you've gone for your concussion, if you still have symptoms, you're still suffering. And they didn't do stuff to check your eyes and not your vision, the movement of your eyes and how your brain controls the movement of your eyes. You need to go someplace else.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: I mean, that's a great point. And I give you an example of a kid who was probably around 10 or 11. He had a concussion, now he's back to playing baseball, but he keeps swinging and he never swung and missed a lot before the concussion. But now he's back to playing baseball and it's almost a year later and he's still swinging and missing and something like that.
[00:40:28] Speaker C: Tell you, okay, so I'm gonna, I won't answer your question because I'm gonna give you a case history. So Major League Baseball did a study, it was published in 2018. And they took two groups, they took a group of players that had concussions and they took a group of players that have, they were placed on DL for bereavement issues, death in the family, birth of a baby. You know something, it was a non baseball related time away from the game. Then they measured what happened when they came back and what they found was the concussed players might have been asymptomatic. But a year later they, they still had decreased batting average, they still had base on ball slugging percentages. All the metrics they measure for hitters was below that. Okay, so then Major League baseball says, okay, we better do a better job with this. So they sit in a new protocol in motion and they literally just published another article. This was a 10 year study and what they found was this was all concussions, that players who had a concussion, when they came back, they were able to decrease the amount of time they were away from playing from 33 and a half days to 18.9 days or something like that. But then what they said is a year later and for the rest of their career, their slugging percentage was down, their baseballs percentage hits were down, their batting average was down. And so to me, that says two things. Number one, all they did was get rid of their symptoms. They did not fix the concussion. And then number two, whoever's in charge over there, they got a AAA baseball player instead of a major league player after the concussion. That medical staff should be fired.
You know, you owned a baseball team and you got a guy hitting 350, right? And then he has a concussion, now he's hitting 198. Like is there something wrong with this? Am I missing something, Doc?
[00:42:10] Speaker B: Well, you know, to bring that up, I believe Anthony Rizzo had a concussion and then he was playing, he came back and played for the Yankees. And I'll tell you, you know, the only kind of hits he was getting were blue pits and very soft hits. He wasn't hitting for power. He was hitting for a low average. He was having trouble in the field. His, you could see his reaction time was, was definitely decreased.
[00:42:35] Speaker C: Yeah, never the same.
[00:42:37] Speaker B: And he just didn't seem to be the same player. And I suspect, I mean, I don't know, I didn't examine him, but I suspect he was. It's probably because of the, he had a post consult, a little bit of a post concussion syndrome and he just, it never really was the same.
[00:42:52] Speaker C: Okay, but doc, he was symptom free. That's all they care about. He had no symptoms, but he was a, he was less than a triple A player after that hit. How many, how many millions were they paying the guy? Well, probably not as much as they pay them now, but you get the point.
[00:43:08] Speaker B: Sure, sure. And they, they put the, put, put the guy back out there and after he wants to play. And at one time he was one of the best players in baseball, you know, and his re. You could see he wasn't himself. At least I could as really as a fan. But looking at it with maybe a closer, a closer eye, a little bit about SIS or Second Impact Syndrome, you know, having a concussion and then going back, what actually happens to the brain when somebody has one concussion and then they have another concussion. The statistics I show for Second Impact Syndrome is that up to 50% of the people could die and 100% become disabled. And that's what, when I was watching that fight with Ray Mancini and Dooku Kim when he was killed in the ring and as you said, boxers get killed in the ring every year, the statistics show, and I'm sure because of the Second Impact syndrome now.
[00:44:12] Speaker C: So just picture this. Remember we talked about banging your thumb with a hammer and it gets swollen, right? So that's what happens to your brain when you get a concussion. Now if, if you're nursing your thumb and it's not quite better, but then you bang it again, what happens to your thumb is like dramatically worse, right? Well, that's basically what happens to the brain. The, the first concussion has not completely calmed down and that typically is going to be that neuro inflammatory cascade. One of those chemicals that we talk about is Interleukin 6, if it's elevated high enough within the first 12 to 30 minutes after concussion, you die.
But if that hangs around for 10, 20, 30 years at a very low level, you don't die, but it just erodes your brain.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:44:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:45:00] Speaker B: And the brain becomes swollen and the blood gets, the blood supply, I assume, gets choked off.
[00:45:06] Speaker C: Yes. And then, you know, the person unfortunately will pass away.
[00:45:12] Speaker B: So that's why it's so important for people listening to this, don't brush your kids out too soon. Make sure they're better. And when we get back from the break, we're going to talk about how do you know when they're getting better? But I want to hear about the Muhammad Ali story. This is Dr. Gary Dell for Open your eyes Radio. We're talking with Dr. Evan Mladinoff, expert in concussion.
[00:45:31] Speaker C: We'll be right back.
[00:45:39] Speaker A: I went to the eye doctor the other day with my daughter Maggie. I was shocked when the doctor told me that my daughter was already becoming nearsighted. It turns out that this problem affects more than 40% of Americans. My eye doctor thinks this disease is getting worse. Perhaps it's getting worse because of kids prolonged time spent playing with smartphones or maybe because kids now spend less time outside. My genetics probably aren't helping her a whole lot being nearsighted myself. But the good news is that the doctor told me about a new FDA approved product called my sight. This specific one day contact lens is already worn by thousands of children in the US it is proven to slow down the progression of nearsightedness. And best of all, Maggie loves these contact lenses. The doctor taught her how to use them. Now it is so exciting to see her have even more success in the classroom and when she plays sports. I Recommend you visit openyoureyesradio.com to find an eye doctor that specializes in this treatment program. Learn more at openyourizeradio.com Larry Older here inviting you to join me on the Patriots Alaska cruise this summer.
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[00:48:42] Speaker C: We'Re back.
[00:48:43] Speaker B: Evan Miladinoff Concussions. His book Doc, when can my kid play A great book because we don't want to send our kids out there too soon. We were talking about SIS second concurrent impact syndrome getting a concussion twice. 50% of the people die, 100% are permanently disabled. So we don't want that to happen to anybody. Listening to this when we were talking, we talked about the boxer Dooku Kim. Tell me about Muhammad Ali.
[00:49:17] Speaker C: You know, I was growing up as a kid and my grandfather loved boxing. So this will tell you how young I am. We used to watch the Friday night boxing after the Don Amici Circus World. So that's how young I am. Right. So but my grandfather said the boxing's too violent, your kids got to go to bed. So we went to bed. But that was in the era of the late 50s and Muhammad Ali, he won as Cassius Clay the gold medal and the heavyweight at the Rome 1960 Olympics. And he when he would turn professional, he coined the term say with me, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Right? That was his moniker. And he would do this Gyration in the ring and everything. Well, he was exceptional and he won the majority of his fights. And his last fight was against leon Spinks in 1978. And he won the fight.
Excuse me.
So fast forward to the Atlanta Olympics. So from 1978 to 1996, the Atlanta Olympics, they have Muhammad Ali voted the Olympian of the century to light the torch. So they have him up there and somebody handed them the torch is one arm, his left arm was by his side shaking like a leaf, his right arm holding the torches, shaking like a leaf. And then they had to, they literally would only let him move the torch about one foot to touch the cauldron, which then was pulled by a wire up to light the cauldron for the whole Olympics.
Well, fast forward to the London Olympics where they honored six Olympians from all time and Muhammad Ali was one of them. And of course the stadium goes nuts and everything, but his wife had to literally carry him out onto the field. He was so disabled. He had Parkinson's, he had, you know, he was punch drunk, all those things. And you could see his demise over those years after his last fight from 1978. And, you know, I grew up in a different planet, Doc, and you know, either loved Muhammad Ali or you hated him because he creatively interwove politics with sports. And you know, I, I, I always hated him because he was good, right? And he, you know, I had a little bit of athlete in me, but it's like, damn, he's good. And he tells him what he's going to do and he does it and he beats him. But when, when he stood up and threw the medal in because I'm an Olympic freak, he threw his gold medal in the, I think the Cincinnati river or the Ohio river. And he went to prison for his spiritual beliefs. It's like there's a human being that would be great to pattern your life after.
And then of course, he came back in there. So that's a reason why I love Muhammad Ali. I hate the tragic end of his life. But that's what boxing does, the repetitive head trauma.
[00:51:57] Speaker B: So you're, you're mostly involved with football. And let's talk about some of the football players that have died from concussion. Mike Webster, Andre Waters Jr. SEO, Dave Morrison. Dave Dickerson actually shot himself in the chest so they could do a, so they could, so he could leave his brain to science to find out what was wrong with his brain. Aaron Hernandez, if you could talk about some of the football players and what they found after they died and why they died so young.
[00:52:34] Speaker C: Well, that. That brings to light the. The severe complications of neuro Inflammation. Inflammation of the nerves in the brain where they literally turn the brain into Swiss cheese. They literally destroy large portions of the brain. And then as those portions of the brain get lost, it's like they're not there. You start losing different functions in your body. Some of these guys die in their sleep because their ability to control breathing just stops and they suffocate to death.
A lot of them, like the Mike Webster story, they found him drinking because the only thing that would help him was drinking alcohol. And he got so, so bad and so poor. He was drinking, I believe Aqua, he was drinking aftershave for the alcohol content because it was cheaper than going buying alcohol to get by. And, you know, so it's so. It's not good. And for me, those were dark times in sports and. And they've done a lot to change that, but I still think there's a lot more they can do it. So, doc, here's my fear. You. We all saw that. And I always get his name wrong. Tuataglia Lova.
The Miami, right? He got hit and he's laying there in this weird posture. Now those weird postures tell you which part of the brain has been injured.
And so my fear is, parents are going to say, oh, my, my Johnny, he wasn't as bad as Tua. That didn't happen to him. He didn't even go unconscious. He'll be able to play. And the answer is no, he's not until he's proven that he can do it. Okay? So. So if I can answer your question, you know, when should they go back to play? Here's a short answer. Remember you. We talked about being on the edge of the cliff at the Grand Canyon? All right? So here's a simple thing you can do. Most people, if you have a watch that has metrics on it, can take your pulse, right? So take your pulse for a couple minutes and then go do something like read a page of a book and see does your heart rate go up? Okay. Or go outside, walk around the block, see if your heart rate goes up. Okay? And then if your heart rate goes up from doing a simple little thing like reading a page of the book, guess what? You're on the edge of the cliff of the Grand Canyon. Reading one page of a book should not increase your heart rate, okay? Now it's not. We're not talking one beat per minute. We're talking, it goes up eight to ten beats per minute. So that's a simple little test you can do if you're not getting any guidance from a caregiver is like, okay, what. What can I start to do? And you can monitor yourself like that.
[00:54:58] Speaker B: And what, and, and you know, this, this has been so amazing, this discussion. We're going to have you come back for another hour and we're going to talk about things that we can do, whether it's supplements, you know, certain types of eye exercises, things that could be done in rehab. But the average person that comes back, what is it like, 28, 29 days is what the average is.
[00:55:23] Speaker C: Okay, so it depends on who you read. Right. So the average according to The NFL is seven to 10 days. Now, who came up with this idea? That's what I want to know. Because if you go to the NFL's website, they only list five criteria for recovery. Well, if you meet each one of those criteria every 24 hours, you can play in six days, not in seven days. Right. But they don't talk about function. They just talk about symptoms. They only talk about symptoms. You don't have these symptoms, then you.
[00:55:51] Speaker B: Can play seven days because it. They play every week.
[00:55:55] Speaker A: So.
[00:55:56] Speaker C: Oh, imagine that. How. How convenient.
[00:55:58] Speaker B: Right. Instead of the 28 days that I guess is the. Is the correct amount and somebody actually is better that they can go back.
[00:56:06] Speaker C: Right.
[00:56:07] Speaker B: Which recommended what you mentioned in your book.
[00:56:09] Speaker C: Yeah. So statistically, across all sports, it's about 29.4 days. Whether it's the United States Air Force Academy, whether it's the professional Rugby Union in Australia. You know, just about every Sport it's about 20. So every couple of years they have this international symposium. It's called the International Sports Concussion Symposium. They just did one that was actually on my birthday in 2022. Well, they just published the results and they, they talk about, okay, when can someone go back to play? What are the criteria? And they always slip into the end. Well, you know, these guidelines are important, but it may only take seven to 10 days. But what was the point of having your international symposium if you still say seven to 10 days and you ignore all the literature out there?
[00:56:52] Speaker B: So when they. With the cte, when they look at the brains, they're finding tau. What else are they finding in the, in the brain? It's what other kinds of scar tissue?
[00:57:03] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Scar scar tissue. Tissue missing. There'll be the portions of the brain missing. It's like if you look at some of these things, there was a great Time magazine article, and if you just search time magazine 101 concussions they, they did an autopsy on 101 NFL players and they showed a picture of the brain of the front cover of the magazine. And you can click on any one of those brains and you'll get the, the athletes story. But when you, if you just stand back and look at them all have got black marks on them somewhere in the brain and that's where scarring has happened, where brain has been eroded or rotted away because of all the neuroinflammation that's happened in there.
[00:57:44] Speaker B: So you're sitting on the sideline, you're at a football game and you're one of the staff and you're responsible, partly responsible for telling whether this guy kicked this professional football player could go in and play. What does that feel like, having that kind of responsibility?
[00:57:59] Speaker C: Well, first of all, I don't want that anymore because of high dollars. But you know, the reason why I don't want that responsibility more is I don't make life decision making processes all day in my practice. Just like you know, with a pregnant mom when it comes time for a baby. I was the worst doctor at a baby's birth, my own kids because I was a dad. I was not the doctor. I don't deal with, you know, birthing emergencies either. So that's why I don't like to be on the sideline. Let, let someone trained in emergency medicine, emergency procedures deal with them, let them go to er, get all the stuff done to make sure there's no ominous event going to happen. Let their body come down and about a week later is when I do the best things I can do.
[00:58:39] Speaker B: Well. We're speaking with Dr. Evan Mladenoff at the Mladenoff Clinic, Kansas City. Dr. Milanov, if people want to find out more about you, how could they.
[00:58:48] Speaker C: Do it several ways. I'll send you a link where how they can get the book on Amazon. We have a free one hour seminar. We do. We're going to start that in about a month and or if they are close enough to Kansas City and they want to come in and become a patient. So we'll send you a link but if you just search doc, when can I play on Amazon.com it'll get you to the book for sure.
[00:59:09] Speaker B: So his book doc, when can my kid play? Dr. Evan Miladinoff. He's kind enough to be back with us next week for part two of what we can do to help these people that have had a concussion. This is Dr. Kerry Gal for Open your eyes Radio. We'll see you next week with Dr. Evan.
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