Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The following program was pre recorded and the views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station or its management.
Good morning, I'm Dr. Kerry Gelb and welcome to Wellness 1280 on Open youn Eyes Radio. Please listen as I discuss the newest information in the world of health, nutrition and sports. Every Saturday morning, 6am Central Time on AM 1280 the Patriot. Also, please share your thoughts by emailing me at drkerrygelbmail.com that's D R K E R R Y G-E L bmail.com and visit my new website, wellness1280.com where we have all guest links, Wellness 1280 info and previous shows. Wellness is taking over the Patriot Airways for the next hour, so sit back and enjoy my investigative report on the dark side of bodybuilding. Today we're exploring a world where physical power often hides emotional pain. The intense, image driven world of female bodybuilding. While the spotlight celebrates strength and symmetry, behind the scenes are stories of hormone disruption, disordered eating, pressure to be feminine, and a silent struggle to maintain health while chasing perfection. Our guest today is Jen Face, Hidden Face for obvious reasons. A former competitive bodybuilder who's here to courageously share what few are willing to say out loud. Her firsthand experience peels back the glamour to reveal the physical and emotional toll of the sport, especially on females. This isn't just about muscles, it's about the price women pay to fit an ideal. Let's open our eyes and ears to what's really happening beneath the surface. Jen, thank you for joining me today on Open youn Eyes radio and podcast with Dr. Kerry Gelb.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: My pleasure.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: Jen, tell us a little bit about your story growing up, when you became involved in bodybuilding and why you became involved in bodybuilding.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: I would say growing up I was always a little bit on the heavier side and you know, didn't exactly fit the typical mold of a child. Always carried some extra weight and that continued into my teens. And I wouldn't say that I was unnecessarily unhappy, but there came a point, probably about 20 years old where I reached my heaviest, which was about 235 pounds. And I just made a decision that I was ready to change my life for the better. I was ready to change my appearance and feel good about myself. And within that year I lost.
I went down to 165 pounds. That was all naturally and that was my initial weight loss and my initial accomplishment and shortly thereafter that my brother, who was already been a bodybuilder for a few years he decided he would make me his guinea pig and introduce me to that world. And so about a year after my initial weight loss, I competed for the first time at the age of 23.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: And how tall are you? So people kind of get a 5 10, you're 5 10, so you're, you're fairly tall.
Female bodybuilders, are they that tall or, or are they, or.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: I would say I was like definitely on the taller side. I would say average is maybe you know, 57 or 5 8, because the taller you are, the more difficult it is to put, you know, size on, especially on your legs. So I was definitely tall for a competitor.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: And when you went as a bodybuilder, at what point did you decide I'm going to be a bodybuilder, where I'm going to go try to go pro or very high amateur, where I might have to use drugs to be involved in bodybuilding?
[00:03:46] Speaker B: Well, I think that's sort of given out of the gate, you know, like I would say that I started experimenting, you know, with anabolics before I competed for the first time.
So the goal at that point in time was not to go pro. I was young. I don't, you know, think I thought much about that part of it. It was back in a time where it wasn't on social media. You weren't, you know, posting progress pics to show how you look and announcing it to the world. You had to use dial up Internet and you know, find the contest and you know, dig through photos to find it. So it was really just for me at that time, not for like the notoriety or the intent of going pro, but it was kind of a given even that long ago, you know, just 20 something years ago that that was part of the sport. Unless there's somewhere in the specific title which says like a natural bodybuilding foundation. It's just a given that to be competitive that's a requirement.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: And when did drugs get involved in bodybuilding? When Arnold was a bodybuilder and Frank.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: Zach, I would say like forever.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: It's always been involved but, but it's.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: What I've seen the trend is, is especially now that I've been out of it for 10 years, it just like seems to exponentially increase, you know, over time. Like bigger, stronger, more shredded, you know, more vascular, all these different things. So I think the amount has definitely increased over the years.
[00:05:10] Speaker A: And before we talk about some of the drugs, I understand now they actually inject oils into the body.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Oh yeah, that's, that's been A long thing too. But Synthol is kind of like if you have a certain muscle group that you know doesn't grow or doesn't respond, you can inject synthol directly into that particular muscle group. However, when you compete, it's pretty obvious because it doesn't look the same as a muscle. It just kind of looks like a, you know, strange bubble of sorts. So it's, you can use it, but it's pretty, pretty obvious to judges.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Now the big time bodybuilders, do they use it as well or not? Not really.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: I, I mean, maybe at an amateur level where, you know, you know, the judges may not discount you points because of it, but pro bodybuilding these days, now I don't think that would be a common thing.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: And to watch your progression as a bodybuilder, I heard Frank Zane in an interview say that looking in the mirror doesn't work, that you have to take pictures of yourself to see what you really look like.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: Oh, for sure.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: Talk about that just for a minute, how you monitor your progress.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Well, so back when I first started, I mean, I always had a coach. So you're, you know, you, your coach is your extra eyes because it's hard to look at yourself and think, okay, I'm where I need to be. So that's the purpose of hiring a coach. Even the last time I did it, I know what to do, but I don't have those outside eyes to kind of judge it. So 20 years ago it was just using a video recorder and doing the poses and taking measurements, taking body fat measurements, tracking your weight. But now I would say it's more common to just use the cell phone and take pictures every week, every two weeks, whatever your coach decides is, you know, enough time in between.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: And speaking about coaches, coaches in bodybuilding, are they pushing the drugs? Are they really out for the bodybuilder or are they really just out for the, the win? How much do they care about the bodybuilder?
[00:07:18] Speaker B: I would say that depends on the coach. So I've had several over the years. I've had some that definitely push on the higher side and they're not concerned with, you know, what the possible complications could be with that. My last coach, however, was super conservative, especially for females. He wanted as little as possible. So I think his approach was definitely the best for me, given my genetics are really good. I never needed the amount that I had done in the past with other coaches and that, you know, the outcome was the same. I mean, I looked better than I ever have. And he was super conservative and didn't push at all.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: You know, you, you see that many bodybuilders actually die very young.
Boston Lloyd comes to mind. You know, he died in 2020.
You know, he, he grew up in a family of bodybuilders. Now, when you're going through this and you see that some of these famous bodybuilders are dying in their 30s and their 40s and even in their late 20s, how does that affect you as a bodybuilder?
[00:08:26] Speaker B: I think that it is, like, far more common with the males because the males have to take exponentially more than females do and harsher drugs, etc. So the biggest issue with these male bodybuilders is just the sheer size of them, but also the, the muscle is, you know, the heart is also a muscle, so it grows at the same time and the body can't keep up with it. So it never, like, frightened me in that way because, you know, it's much different between males and females. But I mean, it is an alarming trend with the men, for sure.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: You know, I had a friend, he was actually a personal trainer of mine, and he worked with me, worked with my daughter, and he was a professional bodybuilder. And he passed away in his early 40s from, from bodybuilding. You know, he had a heart attack. His, his heart was 60, 65% larger than a normal, a normal heart had to work so hard. His hemoglobin went way high. You know, it's just really, you know, it's just something really that I guess it gets so addictive, you just want to get bigger and bigger.
[00:09:32] Speaker B: Oh, addictive is the key word there for sure.
[00:09:35] Speaker A: You know, and the term bigorexia that was coined back in, I think in 1980 in People magazine. Just trying to get big and big. We're up against the break. I'm speaking with Jen, she's anonymous. We're talking about the dark side of bodybuilding. When we get back, we're going to talk, we're going to get into some of the drugs that are used by bodybuilders. This is Dr. Kerry Gilpur. Open your eyes.
We're back with Jen. We're talking about the dark side of bodybuilding. And before the break, we were talking about some of the bodybuilders that have passed away and that it's. You mentioned it's more common in males than females, but have there been any females that you are aware of that actually have passed away from bodybuilding?
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Yeah, just actually in, you know, recent years, there's been A couple stories of females that really just from the use of diuretics have ended up, you know, with a heart attack or what have you from, you know, the electrolytes being thrown off and. Or they, you know, use diuretics for the show and then they try to do cardio afterwards. One I know had a heart attack on a treadmill. So those are the more common things that you see with the females is the use of diuretics because they're, they're harsh.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: And why do they use diorites? I assume it's to help them get cut. But why do they use them?
[00:10:55] Speaker B: You use them like the last three days while you're also tapering down your water intake. And that's. The diuretics are used to pull all the subjects cutaneous water from the body so that there's just none there. It's just pure muscle and skin. And that's what creates that look, which is very temporary, but that gets you ready for that day on stage.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: And have you ever experimented with diuretics?
[00:11:20] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And they made me feel awful. That was by far the part that I dreaded the most. Some people, I think, handle it better than others. But everybody says, what did you eat after the first, after your show? I'm like, you do not care about eating. You just want to drink because you have a headache, you're cramping. It's a pretty miserable feeling for sure.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: And pretty much everybody's using it, whether male or female will use diuretics at.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: A higher competitive level for sure. I don't think that natural bodybuilders are allowed to even use that. But you would be able to tell a significant difference if someone had or had not.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: So talk to me about the steroid part in bodybuilding. You know, steroids are interesting because there are steroids that are anabolic and androgenic. And with bodybuilding, they're trying to make them just anabolic. So to grow. So some of, some of the steroids are. Or steroid like drugs are. Testosterone like drugs are, are maybe 10 to 1 anabolic to androgenic, 5 to 1 anabolic to androgenIC. So talk to me about those, the oral ones and then the injectable ones. Let's start with some of the oral ones, like Anabar or Westerol. Tell us about that. And how does that affect the body?
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Well, so as far as women's bodybuilding, how it was always explained to me, my brother was kind of like, yes, as I said, he was the one who got me into it. So he kind of guided me through, and he always said, there's kinds that are okay for girls, and there's kinds that are not okay for girls. So in other words, you know, things like Anavar that are not going to have any masculinization effects and, you know, voice changes and such, those are considered, you know, girls drugs. And then there's kinds that, you know, if you're willing to gamble with it, you run the risk of, you know, facial changes, facial hair changes. It's just a matter of how far you're willing to go to get bigger. I have really good genetics, so I didn't really have to go over to that side, so I stuck with things more like oral Anavar, maybe some injectable windstraw for about six weeks, injectable growth hormone, things like that. But I never ventured onto that other side.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: So tell me, what. What kind of side effects did you have? And what kind of side effects will other people have when they use some of the stronger drugs?
[00:13:43] Speaker B: I think a lot of that is based on, you know, your. Your genetic makeup, you know, that whole idea of, like, roid rage and, you know, acne for men. I think if you're genetically predisposed to that, that's likely to happen, but not necessarily for me. The only real change that I saw was, you know, when I was young, in my early 20s, I had got something that I think was not what it was supposed to be. So it did change my voice and pretty much overnight, and it was a significant change which stays, you know, forever. But aside from that, growth hormone can create a little bit of bone growth. So my feet are bigger, my hands are bigger, but nothing as far as my, you know, face or anything like that.
[00:14:28] Speaker A: And talk about some of the ones for the men, what they take, you know, some of the ones that they. Some of the steroids that they take.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: I think the ones for men are, like, significantly harsher. You know, there's like, trend and, you know, some of the. The. The bigger ones that have, like, real personality changes, and they just. They just have to take more because the guys now are just enormous. It's just incredible.
[00:14:57] Speaker A: And trend is injected, right?
[00:14:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: Trent is ejected. Have you ever taken trend?
[00:15:03] Speaker B: I had some coaches that told me to take that, despite me telling them that I would get too big too fast. And they said they wanted me to try it anyway. And I think it was two weeks, and I put on, like, £15 almost, and they were like, never mind. So they. They pulled it.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: Now can you tell when somebody's Taking these drugs, since you're in it, like if you watching a baseball game, can you tell if one of the baseball players is taking it or I mean, in the gym?
[00:15:30] Speaker B: For sure, yeah. Like it would take me all of 10 seconds to figure it out.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: And what would you see in them that you would know that they're taking some of these testosterone type drugs?
[00:15:42] Speaker B: I mean, the biggest thing is like the level of like hardness and in, you know, like being shredded, that's just not naturally attainable. Like when I see a female that's, you know, especially maybe like in my age bracket and they have that really like hard, tight look and they have some size on them that's just not really typically achievable for a female especially, you know, older.
[00:16:04] Speaker A: You know, when they used to talk about Barry Bonds taking steroids, that his head would get, got bigger. Is that possible? Does your head really get bigger?
[00:16:12] Speaker B: Well, the growth hormone, you know, it grows cells. So whatever is made up of cells can grow, including bones. So like the typically it's like that bone above, I don't know what it's called, but above your eyebrows, like that can grow outwards, you know, hands and feet.
[00:16:28] Speaker A: So when you're, when you're working with clients, you go to the house and work with clients. You ever have regular clients that say, look, I want to go into professional bodybuilding, how do I go about getting these drugs? Because most of these drugs are not legal, so they have to get them online somehow.
How does that conversation go?
[00:16:49] Speaker B: You know, I don't train people for competitions anymore. I used to in a big part of it. Why I don't anymore is number one, because I left that kind of behind. But it's also because, you know, I would have to be really honest. I'm not going to tell somebody that they can do it naturally and be competitive. And I also don't want to be responsible for even telling them where to access it because I don't want that on my conscience or, you know, as a liability or what have you. But I was always very open when women would say, well, I want to look like you. I'm like, well, this is what's involved in it. Like, I never really tried to hide that because I felt like that was misleading to a client.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: And how many hours would somebody that's a professional bodybuilder have to be in the gym? You know, I go to the gym, I try to be in and out, and a half hour, 45 minutes tops. But somebody that's a professional body builder, how long Would they have to be there for.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: Well, it progresses. So as you get closer to a show, then there's, you know, the, the cardio goes up as the weeks go on. So I would say at the end of my last one, for the first last, you know, month or so, I was probably doing 45 minutes of fasted cardio in the morning and then five days a week of heavy weight training for about an hour.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: And you do this different body parts. How many days a week will you do one body part? A professional like somebody like me, you know, but somebody like you that's really knows what they're doing, that's a professional or you know, someone like Ronnie Coleman. How often do they actually train their biceps or their chest?
[00:18:22] Speaker B: I think it depends on, you know, everybody has, you know, lacking body parts or body parts that are behind. So my upper body is really naturally muscular. I never had to train it as hard. So upper body was once a week. Every part for me but legs, because I'm tall, it's hard to get size of them. So I definitely trained legs twice. And when I have clients that have certain body parts that are weaker than others, those are the body parts that typically train more than once a week.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: So one of these big time bodybuilders, they only do chest once a week. They won't do it more than once a week.
[00:18:57] Speaker B: I think it varies from person to person, but mine was very chest, back, shoulders, arms, legs. But I always found a second time to throw legs in there.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: And how many sets would you do and how many reps would you do? Would you do high reps or would you do low reps? Heavy weight, how do you decide what you're going to do?
[00:19:15] Speaker B: I actually, you know, the first couple that I did, it was very, you know, traditional, just heavy weights and you know, three to four sets per exercise. I did some do some experience with volume training because I was doing two shows back to back. I had to go back to a local show to re qualify for nationals. So I thought, well, you know, I'm probably going to win this local show so let me just experiment with like volume training and see what the difference is. And for me I responded really well to both. I think that it was easier for me to lift heavy for less reps. But I definitely had really great response from. I've done leg press sets of 100, then 75, then 50, then 35, then 25, so really, really high in that range. So it's a preference. But I did find that both worked pretty similar for me.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: And which way do you think is less risk? I mean, for yourself, you know what, you know, you know, for people listening, go out and get. Hire a personal trainer. But for yourself, which way was less risk of getting injured?
[00:20:18] Speaker B: Well, then I don't think it was as big of a risk. But now that I'm older, I definitely don't try to do that really heavy lifting for six to eight reps anymore just because it's not worth the injury risk to me. I'd rather, you know, do some volume training, higher repetitions and get the same result.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: And did you ever have sprinting as part of your routine?
[00:20:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I hate it, but it works.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: And tell me about sprinting. What does it do for us? And you know, I did a podcast on abdominal obesity, visceral fat. And they would say that sprinting was the best to get rid of visceral fat. But from, you know, that's from a doctor's point of view, but from a body builder's point of view. What do you think?
[00:21:04] Speaker B: Well, I think that distance running is, you know, great for like, you know, the, your lung capacity etc, and a lot of people, it clears their head. But for bodybuilders, distance running would, you know, never be the thing that you would go to. You'd go for short sprints and yeah, it's more of like a fat burn as far as like, you know, a cardio activity. So I never did any kind of distance running. It was always, you know, some sprint work.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: And what age would you recommend kids that want to start lifting weights, start lifting weights? I know you have a young son. You have a couple sons.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: Well, my, I would say, you know, it varies on kid to kid in their puberty stages, But I think 14 is a pretty good age to start.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Well, hold it right there. This is Dr. Kerry. Go. We're up against the break. You're listening to Open your eyes radio. We'll be back with, with Jen after the.
We're back with Jen. We're talking about the dark side of bodybuilding. We talked about diuretics before and some of the drugs that are taken. Let's talk about SARMs, selective androgen receptor modulators. What's your opinion on those and how do they work? And is that used a lot with bodybuilders?
[00:22:24] Speaker B: I'll be honest with you, I am not super familiar with that. I think it's become more popular along with peptides, but it wasn't something that I ever experimented with. So my knowledge on that isn't great.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: And you talked a Little bit about growth hormones. Tell me about growth hormones. You know, I'm always concerned from a medical point of view when people are taking hormones that they could get a side effect of connective tissue problems like carpal tunnel and that it could raise the lp, which is a blood test, a lipoprotein little A, which could make you, if that goes up, it increases your risk of having a heart attack. It's inflammatory lipoprotein. So tell me about growth hormone. What was your experience with that? And pro con, what do you think?
[00:23:16] Speaker B: I mean, it was just kind of like a necessity. Like I definitely used that every time that I competed and for years I never came off of it. And I don't, I think the state that I was in and you know, what I was trying to obtain, I don't think I really thought about then like the long term effects or the negative possibilities that could have come with it. It was just about trying to be the best.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: And how about insulin? Did you ever use insulin?
[00:23:45] Speaker B: I never messed around with that. That one was a little too scary for me. But I did know, I do know my brother messed around with it. I did know other male bodybuilders that messed around with it, but I never.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Touched that because back in the day, you know, in the Arnold, Frank Zane day, I'm not sure that they used insulin because there's. Their belly, their stomach would be flat now with the insulin because it causes fat to accumulate around muscles. You know, when they're not flexing, the belly tends to bulge.
And I was just wondering if you knew anything about that part of it.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: I think that, you know, from what I understand that that also comes from, you know, overuse of growth hormone that the abdomen becomes just distended. But, and I, that's definitely more common now, but you know, I never experienced that, luckily.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: And you have knowledge about clenbuterol?
[00:24:38] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I always use that.
[00:24:39] Speaker A: All right, tell us about that one.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: Okay, well, that was the one I hated the most. But it is like highly effective for fat burning and definitely like a staple in the, you know, cocktail of getting ready for a show. But some people, it just like gives a lot of energy. To me, it made me like very agitated, very jittery and like, just not nice. I hated it. But it was, it was necessary.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: And, and a lot of the bikini girls use that. The bikini body built, the bikini models use it. I, I guess. But some, some way it just gets rid of the, increases your metabolism. That's how it increases, gets rid of the fat. I think it was used as an asthma drug at one time and yeah, some other countries. I'm not sure if it's really even FDA approved in the United States. I don't think it is. I don't think it's allowed in the United States. So all these, all these drugs people get, how did it get over the Internet? Oh, you could buy it over the Internet and it wasn't coming from other countries or. Yeah, it does come in from other countries.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: I mean, most of the time, you know, by coaches, had it. Whatever you know, I was comfortable taking, they usually had it. But it's definitely not difficult at all to just order it off the Internet.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: And people ever arrested because of this any.
[00:25:58] Speaker B: I think as long as you keep it for, you know, personal use, they're not really looking for that. You know, my brother did have a package intercepted and the FBI show up at the door that, you know, his friends were involved with putting a big order together with probably the intent to distribute. So when it's a big amount like that, I think it's, you know, a possibility. But when it's these small personal use amounts, it's usually doesn't get caught.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: And some of the males, I don't know if females usually use tamoxifen, which blocks estrogen, so they don't get the man boobs. Gynecomastia, something that females ever use?
[00:26:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I've used that like, and I don't remember if I used it like the whole entire time, but it's just used to decrease, you know, your estrogen, which makes women hold more fat than men do. So that was common. T3, which is A, you know, thyroid drug that's very common to manipulate your thyroid to get leaner. My last coach didn't like it at all, but since I had taken it in previous shows, it's kind of like his understanding was like, once you've done it once to compete, then it's going to be like a requirement. But he was not a fan of that.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: And tell me some of the side effects that you've had from all these different medications that you've taken. What were some of the worst side effects and anything that you regret that you took?
[00:27:19] Speaker B: I think that the Windstraw was one that I really didn't like. It just, it just made my personality really nasty, really edgy all the time. Like, I definitely like look back and think, wow, I was probably like not the greatest mom at that time, period, because it was just, it just made me mean. So I never liked that one. But again, it was kind of like a last six weeks staple of things I would say as far as regret, whatever changed my voice by accident. I mean, my old voice was kind of. I liked it a little better.
[00:27:53] Speaker A: Have you ever had problems with blood clots or heart problems or things like, not.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: Not from that. And to be honest, like, I was very diligent about getting my blood work done, you know, to make sure that everyone. Everything stayed in range. So I never had any health consequences. I just think that, you know, afterwards when you try to, you know, go back to normal, then it's, you know, a little bit difficult because the same things that you're doing all along as far as dieting, training, it doesn't work the same.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: You know, when I get to the gym, I dread going in there. I gotta say. I think a lot of people feel that way. You know, we hate going in, but when we're done, we feel great and we love it. There's a professional bodybuilder hate going in also.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: No, because, you know, like, at that time period in my life, like, I was excited because there was something at the end that I was working towards. So, like, I was like, fired up, like, every time I went to work out, like, oh, I'm gonna do shoulders today. Oh, I'm gonna do legs. And I trained super hard. Now, on the other hand, is there's not that end goal. I'm kind of like, okay, like, you know, I've been doing this for half my life now, 23 years, going to the gym every single week. So, no, there's not the excitement now, but then there was for sure.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: And if you could share your record of amateur and professional, what place did you come in? What's the best you. You've ever finished?
[00:29:12] Speaker B: So the first two I did were in Georgia. Those were amateur shows. I definitely was not lean enough for those shows. So I came in, like, you know, last or second to last those two shows.
Then I did not do it again until I was 30 again. That one was an amateur show, was not nearly lean enough. So the best I did was actually after I had both of my kids. And the best that I did was I got second place in nationals. So I actually missed my pro card by one spot.
[00:29:45] Speaker A: Wow, that's. That's great. So tell me about back. What happens backstage? I understand that sometimes they take shots of salt and vodka. Some of the bodybuilders. And why do they do that?
[00:30:01] Speaker B: I never saw that, but I saw with the. The females, some coaches will have them drink, like, red Wine backstage, or some girls would get extremely nervous about the thought of just walking out there, so they would take something for that. I. That was my favorite part of it, so I never did any of that. I loved walking out there. That was like. That was it for me. That was my favorite.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: That's a good. That's a good point. How do you learn how to pose? How do you practice it? What goes into posing?
[00:30:29] Speaker B: So my coaches always went over posing with me. I was pretty natural at it. But you learn your standard pose, which you can even learn online. But I think the best thing to do, especially now, because the posing has become a bigger part of it, from my understanding, is that most people have posing coaches, and it's just as important to do that on a weekly basis as it is anything else, because you have to be able to present and make your body look a certain way. And if you're standing in a little bit wrong, it's not going to look as good as it could.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: And how much time do you devote to practicing posing as opposed to being in the gym?
[00:31:07] Speaker B: I would say I posed for a few minutes every day, but then I would try to give myself at least one time of week where I made, like, a session out of it.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: And it's been said that posing actually helps increase your muscles or.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: Yeah, like, hardening and things like that. That just that constant, like, contraction of the muscle. And I've even had coaches tell me to, like, flex in between sets, like, whatever I was training, like, biceps. And you, like, hold a flex in between to create a hardening effect. So that's pretty common.
[00:31:38] Speaker A: And how about summit fever? The psychological phenomenon of knowing that you have a week left to get to the top of the summit. What changes the week before a contest?
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Oh, I mean, I wanted to quit every time I was three weeks out, and people would say I was crazy because every time I was three to four weeks out, I was like, I'm not doing this. I can't. I just can't because it's just breaking you.
So I think it's survival mode. Those last couple weeks, you're just, like, trying to feel good enough to stay in it and make it happen. That's definitely the hardest part, is those last couple weeks, you're hungry, you're tired, you're over it.
[00:32:18] Speaker A: Let's talk a little bit about the diet. And people will probably want to know about diet for bodybuilders.
Tell us about the diet.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: I think that most of my coaches are definitely. The last two that I had were. Would Start out at. So I remember that the last one I started out at like 300 grams of protein, 300 grams of carbs and 100 grams of fat. So that becomes your baseline. And then every two weeks I would go see him and based on what was happening, how I was doing, he would, you know, manipulate the numbers with the food and manipulate the cardio to keep me dropping at a steady pace. And then towards the end, the last two I use always used carb rotation and that always, it just always works. Meaning start on a, say it's a five day rotation. You started 100 grams of carbs on day one, it goes 175, 50, 250 the day you do zero, you fat load at night and then the next day you start it all over again and it's hard.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: And, and what kind of protein would you be eating?
[00:33:18] Speaker B: What mostly chicken and fish and steak was usually like once, once a day.
[00:33:23] Speaker A: At night and why not steak as much as chicken and fish? Is there more fat?
[00:33:27] Speaker B: Yeah, has a higher fat content.
[00:33:30] Speaker A: When we get back from the break, I want to talk about the carbs. You were talking about the carbs. What kind of carbs that you were actually using to decrease and is there any fat to allowed, I mean for you to have any olive oil, any type of fat. So we're up against the break. This is Dr. Kerry gel for open your eyes radio with the, with Jen about the dark side of bodybuilding.
This is Dr. Kerry. Go open your eyes radio. We're back with Jen. We're talking about the dark side of bodybuilding. Before the break we talked about diet and we talked about protein. So tell us about what kind of protein you, you started a little bit about it but you need to eat a lot. So you, I, I guess you're looking for like the cheapest type of protein, tilapia. Tell us about that.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: Yeah, so you know, you have 300 grams a day is, you know, a lot when you calculate it. And at most you can have like two protein shakes. So the rest have to be lean sources of protein. So that's either going to be chicken or fish. And you know when you have to eat that kind of amount of it, it's expensive. So tilapia was kind of like the cheap go to. But yeah, it was disgusting.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: And you mentioned that you decrease the carbs. As we get closer to the contest, tell us about what kind of carbs. Is it fruit and vegetables or are you eating bread and rice?
[00:34:59] Speaker B: No, like there was fibrous carbs which, you know, there Wasn't as much of a limit on meaning like, you know, green leafy vegetables, but like the, you know, other kinds of carbs that are pretty staple and standard are oatmeal for breakfast and then either sweet potato or brown rice, sometimes white potato, you know, for the carbs the rest of the day.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: And are you supposed to eat any fat at all?
[00:35:22] Speaker B: Well, so like, in carb rotation, it's pretty specific. So the day that you have zero grams of carbs, you have to load fat at night. But it can't be just whatever you want. It's either got to be, you know, almonds or, you know, natural peanut butter or steak or something like that. But the rest of the. The rest of the days were typically very minimal in fat.
[00:35:43] Speaker A: And what was your food bill like?
[00:35:46] Speaker B: Oh, it was a lot. I used to buy my food from Cheney brothers because it was so, so much cheaper to do it that way. And my husband and I were doing it together at the time. So, yeah, we were spending a ridiculous amount of money on food.
[00:35:59] Speaker A: Crazy. So let's talk about the psychological part of bodybuilding, the rage, whether or not when you stop, if you get depressed. Tell us about that. How does that work into. With the medications, with the drugs that you're using, stopping bodybuilding and going to become a civilian? Sort of.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Right. I mean, I think that, you know, there's different types of people that handle it differently. I do know, you know, friends of mine, that they can compete and be 0% body fat and shredded and then kind of go back to like a per se, normal look, which, you know, is typically, you gain £15 back relatively quickly. But that was the hardest part for me. I really did not deal well with that and did get typically pretty depressed. And I don't think that's ever really left me, like, since the last one I did. I think you, once you've seen yourself like that, even though it's completely impossible to stay like that all the time, you want to. So I think it's been really hard for me, even 12, 13, whatever, it's been years later to like, acceptance. I still have a good body that other people look at me and still think I look, you know, like an athlete, because I. I don't see that. I mean, it's gotten better over the years, but I don't think it ever will go away for me.
[00:37:14] Speaker A: And how do bodybuilders deal with this depression? How do they deal with it?
[00:37:19] Speaker B: I mean, I think it's, you know, something that we find other people that have, you Know, had a hard time with it and so you can talk to about it and you kind of, you know, make each other realize that you're crazy, that you're not seeing it for what it actually is. But I mean, I personally sought, you know, body dysmorphia therapy for it. It was maybe helpful for a little bit of time, but not, not life changing.
[00:37:43] Speaker A: And tell me about roid rage. I mean regular testosterone that people do for TRT replacement therapy is one to one, anabolic to androgenic. But when you're doing, when you're doing the performance enhancing drugs, it could be as high as 10 to 1, anabolic to androgenic. So tell us about that.
[00:38:06] Speaker B: So I didn't see that, you know, for myself. Again, that's because, you know, I really didn't have to like, you know, mess with the, what we call the boys side of drugs. But you know, I've obviously known a lot of bodybuilders over the years and a lot of males and I definitely saw that more with them when taking higher amounts of stuff that just easier agitation then, you know, getting into fights and what have you. Because it's like this kind of superhuman feeling is how it's been described to me for guys.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: Now you have these big giant guys backstage. Are they like fighting with each other? Because they're also.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: No, backstage is really interesting. You're like just trying everything you can not to like look at anybody else, to compare yourself to anybody else. Nobody really talks to each other that much. It's kind of like staying in your own zone and so, and so doing a little bit of pump up work. So no, definitely didn't see any of that.
[00:39:00] Speaker A: So what kind of pump up work do you do before you go out on stage? Are you doing all the body parts? How do you get pumped up?
[00:39:07] Speaker B: Yeah, they have like a whole, you know, bunch of stuff backstage. Different bands and different weights and yeah, you're just trying to get a pump to all of your muscle groups. So you might be doing band work with side lateral raises to get a Delt pump or you know, bicep pump, things like that. And it's, it's pretty typical to, to hit everything. Some girls didn't pump legs up because that takes away from, you know, like how lean your legs look. So you didn't really necessarily want. Because it's harder for females to get their bottom half lean. So you didn't really want to pump that up and lose, you know, that look. But that didn't really affect me because my lower Half was always more shredded than my top actually.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: Tell me about protein shakes. What kind of protein do you use? Does it have amino acids in it? My understanding is that it says protein with amino acids. It's actually worse protein than if it's just straight way that it's cheaper type protein they throw. The amino acid sounds like it's better, but it's actually worse. And I was just wondering what kind of do you still do protein shakes and when you were doing it, what kind of protein did you use?
[00:40:13] Speaker B: I like competing. I became really attached to this whey isolate called nectar because I had a cookies and cream flavor. And in my starving mind back in those days, I thought it was like a milkshake. That's kind of another thing. I have a hard time drinking anymore. Just because over 23 years of drinking so many of them, I'm like, like I'd rather not unless it's like a pre made one. But I always use like a whey isolate. Never, you know, with amino acids.
[00:40:39] Speaker A: And what did you put in with it? What did you. Water, protein powder and water.
[00:40:44] Speaker B: And then for my, my post workout you can use like a fast acting carbohydrate along with your protein. So I would actually take rice cakes and like crush them and put it into the protein shake. So it's fast acting protein and fast acting carbohydrates. Like right after a workout that was actually pretty good.
[00:41:03] Speaker A: And what did you notice? Did you notice any changes to your body after doing that?
[00:41:07] Speaker B: I think you just felt better after like, you know, being depleted and training. It was like any kind of food was. You were happy to have it.
[00:41:14] Speaker A: What's your opinion on creatine? What do you think about creatine? And do you think it's good? Do you think there's a it because it's hot right now? Creatine?
[00:41:25] Speaker B: I, I never, maybe I experimented with it a little bit, but you know, like I have friends that swear by it. I would definitely feel okay with, you know, my teenagers taking it to try to help with, you know, getting a little bit of lean muscle mass. So I think it's good. I just don't have a lot of experience with myself, but it's come a long way.
[00:41:46] Speaker A: And how about herbal testosterone enhancers like Tonga Ali or Fat Guja Arrestus? Have you have any experience with that?
[00:41:58] Speaker B: I don't, but my brother used to say the only supplements worth buying are the ones you get in Cancun.
[00:42:05] Speaker A: Right. You could get anything you would need in Cancun.
[00:42:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I know I've done it.
[00:42:10] Speaker A: And do you remember about Andrew with, with, with Mark McGuire? Remember they found Andrew in his, in his locker and vaguely, you know, what. Did you, did you guys take any of that? Any type of andro or stuff?
[00:42:29] Speaker B: No, I, I didn't.
[00:42:31] Speaker A: So, I mean, you guys would take the real stuff, you know?
[00:42:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:34] Speaker A: You're not taking the herbal stuff?
[00:42:35] Speaker B: No, we're not messing around with the GNC crap. We want, like, we want the real stuff.
[00:42:41] Speaker A: So we've got about two minutes left. I want to go back to the kids.
So do you think kids should start lifting weights before puberty or wait till they go into puberty?
[00:42:53] Speaker B: No, after, for sure, you know, because, like, you have that issue with, like, the muscles might be strong and ready for it, but the tendons, not necessarily, which then can lead to, you know, injuries and what have you. So I think it's better to wait.
[00:43:07] Speaker A: And what kind of exercises do you think kids should start off with when they're starting off and they want to start lifting weights? We're not talking about them taking any kind of drugs or anything just to lift weights to look a little bit better and to feel a little stronger. If they're playing a specific sport, I.
[00:43:23] Speaker B: Would always say it's best to start with like plyometric body weight stuff and band work just to, you know, get an introduction. Get an introduction and get your body familiar with it before you start, like weight bearing exercises.
[00:43:35] Speaker A: Tell us what plyometrics is for people that don't know what that is.
[00:43:38] Speaker B: Oh, anything that's like your own body weight. So air squats, push ups, you know, pull ups, those kind of exercises that just use your own body weight and.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: And air squats is without weight.
[00:43:51] Speaker B: Right, Right. Just doing air squats, you know, lunges with no weight, you know, some sprint work for, for younger people. But I would, I would hold off on like, the weight bearing exercises until a little bit older.
[00:44:04] Speaker A: Why are bands so popular now? Why are they. What do they do that's so good?
[00:44:10] Speaker B: I don't really know, like, the scientific answer for that other than, you know, it's just like resistance without, like, loading it with weight. And it's still, you know, you can still kind of get that same result. You can get a really good pump out of it with just like high repetition.
[00:44:25] Speaker A: Well, we're up against the show. The show is ending. We have about nine seconds left. I want to thank Jen for joining me being anonymous. Jen, thank you for joining me today.
[00:44:34] Speaker B: Absolutely, My pleasure.
[00:44:35] Speaker A: It was a lot of fun. This is Dr. Kerry Gel for Open your eyes radio and podcast.
